I respectfully disagree with your assessment here, Tim. It seems like the thrust of it relies on the argument that Ford’s decision makes buying an EV more confusing for customers because there’s not a settled standard. I think your point about the Tesla standard not having bidirectional charging is a valid one, too. But ultimately I think Ford made this decision because it believes it will speed up EV adoption, which is another way to say it will increase sales of Ford’s own EVs. The supercharger network is one of the biggest advantages to owning a Tesla, and now it will be a similar advantage for Ford EV owners. It’s true, this means the charging standard is still not set, but we may be seeing NACS taking a significant step to becoming the winning standard. I’ll be interested to see if third-party companies will be allowed to open up charging stations using NACS. After all, what’s the significance of every other automaker using the CCS standard if the charging experience is so bad that’s it a deterrent to buying an EV?
Respectfully to your respectfully: there is nothing magical about NACS that makes it better than CCS.
NACS *is* CCS, under the hood. Same SAE reference for communications, same PLC line, same CP states.
NACS is J1772 CCS Level 1 charging, with a different shaped plug that is sized to exceed the 80A limit established by CCS L1.
What has made the supercharger experience as reliable as customers have found it is the fact that the same company has had control over both sides of the charging software experience. Interoperability is a matter of sending a slack message to someone else at the same company, rather than external meetings and getting corporate identities involved.
That in-house advantage will evaporate as the network opens up, and I don't suspect smooth experiences charging your Ford at a Supercharger any time soon.
You’re right, the Supercharger’s advantage isn’t a technical one. It’s that the charging experience is so much better for Tesla owners than the experience non-Tesla owners have had. And you’re right, that experience may deteriorate as the Supercharer network is opened up to non-Tesla vehicles, but Ford gets the advantage of being the first to let its customers experience the greener grass on the other side of the fence before it’s spoiled by so many people trampling it. And we don’t know for certain the experience will be spoiled. There’s a good chance it will be but Tesla will have the opportunity to prove us wrong with how it manages this, and so far they’ve proven to be the best managers of a high-speed charging network in this country so we’ll wait and see what happens.
John, I really don't understand the notion that this opening up the Supercharger network to Ford is an advantage. That was already happening, for every brand! Now Tesla is just going to stop adding CCS plugs for its Superchargers, leaving every other OEM out in the cold.
Every reaction I’ve seen about this news on Facebook so far has been positive for Ford. I’m part of a number of Facebook groups for non-Tesla EV owners like the Bolt, Rivians, Lucid, etc. and so far the universal response is, “We want that, too.” And that’s regardless of the fact they could all have it soon with an adapter anyway. So do you think Tesla is going to stop adding Magic Docks to its Superchargers? I suppose it might eventually if every automaker follows Ford to make NACS their standard and CCS the option that requires an adapter. But it also benefits Tesla to keep adding Magic Docks to its chargers so as to get more and more new Supercharger customers, especially because they’re charging those customers more money per charge than they are Tesla owners. Also, wasn’t this inevitable considering Tesla dominates EV sales in the US and has for a long time? How can companies like Electrify America make their business model work when the volume of cars using CSS is so much smaller? If NACS wins the standard war, it’s partly because the sheer volume of Teslas out there has allowed that company to fund a better charging network.
Reading the comments below, what jumps out at me is the idea that a lot of the comments assume that the people making these decisions have some degree of rationality in doing so. that is just not how business works. Sadly, but truly. Basically, the stupidest solution typically has some externality that, in some dumb person’s mind, trumps the not-quite-as-stupid solution, on up the chain. This is the reason that standards are so incredibly hard. it’s just way too soon for market drivers to be making a play (see: USB-C, and the time that took).
Not that any of the arguments here are bad, mind you. But bad arguments dominate market decisions. I leased a Tesla for three years; I had had a plug-in Prius before that. Just on physical use, the Tesla plug was way superior. Although near the end of the lease, it was getting a little dodgy.
In the end, I rarely use public chargers (live in a rural area; charge at home or die). So I’m not the best on this. But give me lots of electrons, a sturdy smooth operating plug, and I’m good to go. I would be shocked if reasonable standardization happens sooner than give years; Tesla/Musk are wildcards, anything could happen there.
Multiple automakers using the “Tesla” standard means more accountability on Tesla to deliver a solution that works for more people. The speculation about Ford dropping different connectors, or Tesla doing X, Y, or Z is just that.
Also, the incumbents DID create charging standards more than a decade ago…and they a) couldn’t get everyone to agree b) largely fn suck.
Does it, though? Other than Ford, and whatever other OEMs sign on for NACS, doesn't this let the Supercharger network off the hook for supporting any other OEM?
I respectfully disagree with your assessment here, Tim. It seems like the thrust of it relies on the argument that Ford’s decision makes buying an EV more confusing for customers because there’s not a settled standard. I think your point about the Tesla standard not having bidirectional charging is a valid one, too. But ultimately I think Ford made this decision because it believes it will speed up EV adoption, which is another way to say it will increase sales of Ford’s own EVs. The supercharger network is one of the biggest advantages to owning a Tesla, and now it will be a similar advantage for Ford EV owners. It’s true, this means the charging standard is still not set, but we may be seeing NACS taking a significant step to becoming the winning standard. I’ll be interested to see if third-party companies will be allowed to open up charging stations using NACS. After all, what’s the significance of every other automaker using the CCS standard if the charging experience is so bad that’s it a deterrent to buying an EV?
Respectfully to your respectfully: there is nothing magical about NACS that makes it better than CCS.
NACS *is* CCS, under the hood. Same SAE reference for communications, same PLC line, same CP states.
NACS is J1772 CCS Level 1 charging, with a different shaped plug that is sized to exceed the 80A limit established by CCS L1.
What has made the supercharger experience as reliable as customers have found it is the fact that the same company has had control over both sides of the charging software experience. Interoperability is a matter of sending a slack message to someone else at the same company, rather than external meetings and getting corporate identities involved.
That in-house advantage will evaporate as the network opens up, and I don't suspect smooth experiences charging your Ford at a Supercharger any time soon.
You’re right, the Supercharger’s advantage isn’t a technical one. It’s that the charging experience is so much better for Tesla owners than the experience non-Tesla owners have had. And you’re right, that experience may deteriorate as the Supercharer network is opened up to non-Tesla vehicles, but Ford gets the advantage of being the first to let its customers experience the greener grass on the other side of the fence before it’s spoiled by so many people trampling it. And we don’t know for certain the experience will be spoiled. There’s a good chance it will be but Tesla will have the opportunity to prove us wrong with how it manages this, and so far they’ve proven to be the best managers of a high-speed charging network in this country so we’ll wait and see what happens.
John, I really don't understand the notion that this opening up the Supercharger network to Ford is an advantage. That was already happening, for every brand! Now Tesla is just going to stop adding CCS plugs for its Superchargers, leaving every other OEM out in the cold.
Every reaction I’ve seen about this news on Facebook so far has been positive for Ford. I’m part of a number of Facebook groups for non-Tesla EV owners like the Bolt, Rivians, Lucid, etc. and so far the universal response is, “We want that, too.” And that’s regardless of the fact they could all have it soon with an adapter anyway. So do you think Tesla is going to stop adding Magic Docks to its Superchargers? I suppose it might eventually if every automaker follows Ford to make NACS their standard and CCS the option that requires an adapter. But it also benefits Tesla to keep adding Magic Docks to its chargers so as to get more and more new Supercharger customers, especially because they’re charging those customers more money per charge than they are Tesla owners. Also, wasn’t this inevitable considering Tesla dominates EV sales in the US and has for a long time? How can companies like Electrify America make their business model work when the volume of cars using CSS is so much smaller? If NACS wins the standard war, it’s partly because the sheer volume of Teslas out there has allowed that company to fund a better charging network.
Reading the comments below, what jumps out at me is the idea that a lot of the comments assume that the people making these decisions have some degree of rationality in doing so. that is just not how business works. Sadly, but truly. Basically, the stupidest solution typically has some externality that, in some dumb person’s mind, trumps the not-quite-as-stupid solution, on up the chain. This is the reason that standards are so incredibly hard. it’s just way too soon for market drivers to be making a play (see: USB-C, and the time that took).
Not that any of the arguments here are bad, mind you. But bad arguments dominate market decisions. I leased a Tesla for three years; I had had a plug-in Prius before that. Just on physical use, the Tesla plug was way superior. Although near the end of the lease, it was getting a little dodgy.
In the end, I rarely use public chargers (live in a rural area; charge at home or die). So I’m not the best on this. But give me lots of electrons, a sturdy smooth operating plug, and I’m good to go. I would be shocked if reasonable standardization happens sooner than give years; Tesla/Musk are wildcards, anything could happen there.
This is just the beginning. $F will probably license FSD eventually to replace their Blues Clues.
Multiple automakers using the “Tesla” standard means more accountability on Tesla to deliver a solution that works for more people. The speculation about Ford dropping different connectors, or Tesla doing X, Y, or Z is just that.
Also, the incumbents DID create charging standards more than a decade ago…and they a) couldn’t get everyone to agree b) largely fn suck.
Does it, though? Other than Ford, and whatever other OEMs sign on for NACS, doesn't this let the Supercharger network off the hook for supporting any other OEM?
Remains to be seen. Tesla could spin the charge network out as another company & probably make a killing if it was publicly traded.
No way Elon is going to add bidirectional charging while also selling solar power. Ford just gave away one huge selling point.